Re: [GRG] Survival and Immortality

Our difference here is, as so often with people, a difference
between the technical meaning of “Darwinian Evolution” and the
English vernacular meaning of “evolution”.
I totally agree with your application of the vernacular meaning of
evolution, but I disagree that those descriptions fit the meaning of
Darwinian Evolution. Yes evolution meaning:
“a series of related changes in a certain
direction :  process of change : 
organic development :  unfolding,
” or even “a process of continuous change from a
lower, simpler, or worse condition to a higher, more complex, or
better state” or “a process of gradual
and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance or
is a process that is ongoing for humans. And yes, Darwinian
Evolution is certainly a specialized type of “evolution” in the
vernacular meaning. However, the specific mechanism behind Darwinian
Evolution is going to have very little effect on future humans, IMO.
i think we have thrashed this out enough, so this will be my last
PS. Immortal:

1:  not
mortal :  exempt from liability to die

connected with or relating to immortality

3:  destined
to persist through the ages :  exempt from
oblivion :  imperishable,

Because of continuous change, nothing in reality can be truly

On 14-09-18 04:12 PM, hasan sadiq

I respect every disagreement.
Darwinian evolution is a part rather a phase of the universal
evolution, deals with the lifeform on the earth.
Human being, due to its brain, is the most advanced and recent
lifeform in the Darwinian/univresal evolution.
I am sure everybody would agree that evolution is infinite.
Then what would be the next in the evolution?

Evolution occur in a pyramidal design.
Upto the evolution of human brain, nature had been controlling the
evolution through natural selection, now human brain begins to get the
control over the nature. Consciouseness of human brain is going to
determine the direction of evolution.
Brain enhancement does not mean only structural or physical change, or
its capacity to having intuition and highest wisdom but its capacity
to preserve the intuition and wisdom forever.
It might be possible, after achieving immortality, brain develop new
higher faculties.
In Darwinian evolution, “immortality” of the human brain, (a kind of
brain enhancement), is only way to proceed.

Achievement of unbounded lifespan by human means total control over
mechanism of aging and death. Does not sounds ‘immortality’?

On 9/18/14, Paul Wakfer wrote:

On 14-09-17 08:02 AM, hasan sadiq wrote:

Evolution of human brain (its cognition, consciousness and
intellectual faculties) is not the termination of Darwinian evolution,
it is the next level evolution, entirely different from previous
level. It is just like from quantum physics, particle wave duality,
quantum entaglement, uncertainty principle, diferent perception of
reality, which seem to be fairy tales but exist, to our macro
Newtonian world.
Human brain with all its faculties has replaced the natural selection,
now holding the steering wheel of evolution. It is an unique phenomena
in the evolution (after formation of DNA), which will determine the
next phase of evolution, as we are witnessing today.

I totally agree with all of the above and even note that such a new
level of evolution has already been taking place for centuries,
accelerating more as time goes on. The only place we differ is that I
would maintain that this knowledge accumulation and capability to modify
one’s environment is evolution not Darwinian genotypic evolution as has
occurred in the past of all liveforms on Earth. (I also would not agree
that there has yet been any brain enhancement beyond what good health
measures promotes. If a human baby from 50K years ago could be
transported to and raised in a modern household, I maintain that s/he
would be little different brain-wise from current humans.)

In the universal evolution, let’s say from big bang to apperance of
life (DNA), changes were very slow (13 billion years), but after
appearance of life changes (mutations) become fast at the expanse of
short limited life span overall.
It is logical that in the next level Darwinian evolution human brain
will find immortality.

I agree, except that I hate to see the word immortality used for this,
since it “immortal” essentially means incapable of dying. No lifeform of
any kind can be incapable of dying. All that one can hope for is to have
in lifespan with no a priori limit to its length, ie unbounded lifespan.
To achieve this a person will need to be constantly allocating a large
percentage of his/hir time to the scientifically based actions of
staying alive (which is what I have been doing for a couple of decades
or more now).

After achieving the immortality human intellectuality and wisdom will
reach the stage of social hormony where unified global society is only

Again I agree, but you still need to supply the mechanism for this
harmony. However, you are very correct that it cannot be perfectly
achieved without the existence of unbounded lifespans (as I make clear
in my essay at: previously referenced.

Thanks for you thoughts,

–Paul Wakfer

On 9/16/14, Paul Wakfer wrote:

On 14-09-16 12:25 PM, hasan sadiq wrote:

Evolution is universal, inevitable and infinite. There is no end to
evolution, in the next phase of the darwinian evolution I see clearly
the immortal human being,

This may well happen (I certainly hope so and am working towards it),
but the question is whether or not it will occur by means of the
mechanisms of Darwinian evolution. That is, by the survival and
perpetuation of specific genotypes which are more “fit” to so survive
and procreate than other genotypes which are not, and therefore become
extinct. This is the big question, for which I personally agree with
most others here that the answer is negative. Traditional Darwinian
evolution is very close to


About Johnny Adams

My full-time commitment is to slow and ultimately reverse age related functional decline to increase healthy years of life. I’ve been active in this area since the 1970s, steadily building skills and accomplishments. I have a good basic understanding of the science of aging, and have many skills that complement those of scientists so they can focus on science to advance our shared mission. Broad experience Top skills: administration, management, information technology (data and programming), communications, writing, marketing, market research and analysis, public speaking, forging ethical win-win outcomes among stakeholders (i.e. high level "selling"). Knowledge in grant writing, fundraising, finance. Like most skilled professionals, I’m best described as a guy who defines an end point, then figures out how to get there. I enjoy the conception, design, execution and successful completion of a grand plan. Executive Director Gerontology Research Group (GRG). Manages Email discussion forum, web site, meetings and oversees supercentenarian (oldest humans, 110+ years) research. CEO / Executive Director Carl I. Bourhenne Medical Research Foundation (Aging Intervention Foundation), an IRS approved 501(c)(3) nonprofit. Early contributor to Supercentenarian Research Foundation. Co-Founder Geroscience Healthspan Forum. Active contributor to numerous initiatives to increase healthy years of life. Co-authored book on conventional, practical methods available today to slow the processes of aging – nutrition, exercise, behavior modification and motivation, stress reduction, proper supplementation, damage caused by improper programs, risk reduction and others. Fundamental understanding of, and experience in the genomics of longevity (internship analyzing and curating longevity gene papers). Biological and technical includes information technology, software development and computer programming, bioinformatics and protein informatics, online education, training programs, regulatory, clinical trials software, medical devices (CAT scanners and related), hospital electrical equipment testing program. Interpersonal skills – good communication, honest, well liked, works well in teams or alone. Real world experience collaborating in interdisciplinary teams in fast paced organizations. Uses technology to advance our shared mission. Education: MBA 1985 University of Southern California -- Deans List, Albert Quon Community Service Award (for volunteering with the American Longevity Association and helping an elderly lady every other week), George S. May Scholarship, CA State Fellowship. BA psychology, psychobiology emphasis 1983 California State University Fullerton Physiological courses as well as core courses (developmental, abnormal etc). UCLA Psychobiology 1978, one brief but fast moving and fulfilling quarter. Main interest was the electrochemical basis of consciousness. Also seminars at the NeuroPsychiatric Institute. Other: Ongoing conferences, meetings and continuing education. Aging, computer software and information technology. Some molecular biology, biotech, bio and protein informatics, computer aided drug design, clinical medical devices, electronics, HIPAA, fundraising through the Assoc. of Fundraising Professionals. Previous careers include: Marketing Increasing skill set and successes in virtually all phases, with valuable experience in locating people and companies with the greatest need and interest in a product or service, and sitting across the table with decision makers and working out agreements favorable to all. Information Technology: Management, data analysis and programming in commercial and clinical trials systems, and bioinformatics and protein informatics. As IT Director at Newport Beach, CA based technology organization Success Family of Continuing Education Companies, provided online software solutions for insurance and financial professionals in small to Fortune 500 size companies. We were successful with lean team organization (the slower moving competition was unable to create similar software systems). Medical devices: At Omnimedical in Paramount CA developed and managed quality assurance dept. and training depts. for engineers, physicians and technicians. Designed hospital equipment testing program for hospital services division. In my early 20’s I was a musician, and studied psychology and music. Interned with the intention of becoming a music therapist. These experiences helped develop valuable skills used today to advance our shared mission of creating aging solutions.
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